Re: [oc] Inquiry

[Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org>]

First of all, I don't like being quoted out of context. I also don't like, 
when you try to portray that a particular behaviour implies additional 
behaviour.


On Wednesday 07 May 2003 05:45 am, nico@seul.org wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> a écrit :

> You don't want to give back you're "added value" to linux, for example. But
> you find "normal" to use for free millions lines of code that would cost
> billions dollars in developpement if donne by a compagny. Give back
> improvement (to you're customers !) is the fees to use free software.

It is not about "improvements", which I DO contribute back, if practical, to 
various OSS projects, most notably Apache since I DO use a lot of Apache 
software in various forms, both "off-the-shelf", code fragments in 
development and frameworks to build other products on top of.

> If you develop GPL code and somebody else, only sells it without any
> improvement (like for nessus), that's unfare. But look at linux ! IBM,
> Oracle, SUN, Suse, Red Hat,... give improvement and each one benefit of the
> work of the others.


> > However, I use a lot of Apache licensed (think BSD) code, BECAUSE they
> > don't
> >
> > impose any unreasonable restrictions;
>
> "unreasonable restriction" have you read the "CLUF" of windows, millions
> people accept condition far more restrictive ! No garanties, you must
> accept automatic update ,...

And I DON'T use Windows beyond the fact that ONE TOOL requires me to run it 
(Protel DXP). Everything else is executed in Linux, a paid for distribution 
from RedHat.
Also, it doesn't say that all code I develop I have to send back to Microsoft, 
or more radically, all spreadsheets developed are automatically sent to MS.

> > 1. Not allowed to use their name to promote the product.
> > 2. Not allowed to remove the copyright statement in source files.
>
> You want to remove copyright statement ? That's a kind of "moral" stealing,
> don't you think ?

Who the F**K said I want to remove the Copyright?? This really pisses me off.
You go off and learn how to read before you accuses me of "moral stealing".


> Where is the difference between BSD licence and GPL licence ? The only
> difference is that with GPL you must distribute your modification to your
> customers. If you do it with BSD like one, why do you make a difference
> with GPL code ?

> > Most usage is either in form of
> > a. utilizing a service provided, for instance creation of SVG files.
> > b. a plug-in to add additional services to a framework.
> > Both would be impossible with the GPL, without exposing my trade secrets.
>
> Funny. You use Apache, some piece of work that could cost you billions to
> develop but you find anormal to help the project a little.

Not only can you not read, you don't know math either. Tomcat, for instance, 
doesn't cost billions to develop. You are off by several magnitudes.
Also, why don't we ask the Apache Software Foundation themselves and the 
developers (like me) who contribute time into these projects?


> > Bottom line; Most corporations of any size today, have already been
> > through the legal hoo-haa of GPL and made a policy surrounding it, and
> > probably other
> >
> > OSS licenses as well. My dozen or so contacts mostly have the following
> > policy in place;
> > 1. For using a GPL/BSD licensed product in operations = OK.
> > 2. For using GPL in product devlopment = NO.
>
> That's the most complicated part. But a lot of compagny begin to use it
> (websphere for IBM, opencascade http://www.opencascade.com/ for EADS Matra
> Datavision,...) They want to impose there framework and there leadership
> with it, but for the benefit of every one. (what is the best : having 100%
> of a 10M$ market or 40% of a 200 M$ one ?)

Sorry this paragraph does not compute. Can I get a GPL'd version of WebSphere?
Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying there is GPL'd code used inside 
WebSphere, and they are breaching the license?

Commercial developers, like myself, will not survive on love alone. Everyone, 
Linus included, needs to generate income, one way or the other.
The Apache way, is basically a matter of, WE ALL work on the horizontal 
application to the best of our ability and time. We charge money for vertical 
applications that each one of us build on top of the horizontal one.
BUT, FSF/GNU is against the concept that software engineers need food on the 
table, and says; If you link your code into GNU developed software, you have 
to give your software away as well. That is not FREEDOM, that is SLAVERY!!


Sorry, everybody, that I have a harsh attitude, but please put the blame on 
"nicO", to afraid to announce full and real name.

Cheers
Niclas


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